Cards you wouldn't touch with a 10' pole

[WhoseYerLilith]

That sounds like a fun deck Butch- but a teeny problem I see with your deck is the staying power of your creatures- not a lot of defensively orientated cards are in there- I'd probably chuck in a few Wall of Ices, Wonder Walls and Pillar of Flames- but it does sound like a heck of a lot of fun!

[otterpop]

Here's one for you guys -

Subsidence - 120 G, lowers target cepter's highest level land down 1 level

Locusts - 80 G, lowers target land one level.

Ok...so with subsidence you have to spend 40 G more AND you don't get to pick exactly which land gets lowered...

[Targetboy]

Here's one for you guys -

Subsidence - 120 G, lowers target cepter's highest level land down 1 level

Locusts - 80 G, lowers target land one level.

Ok...so with subsidence you have to spend 40 G more AND you don't get to pick exactly which land gets lowered...

Well, I'm not sure, but I don't think Locusts can cut through Land Protection. Land protection does not stop Subsidence (the way I learned this was very painful, I'd rather not talk about it, heh heh). There aren't that many situations where you'd really really need Subsidence over Locust Swarm, but it's just another example of how Culdcept loves to give you a solution to every problem.

[s6]

I don't use Mind Seeker, either. I use Shatter, Squeeze, and the one that's like Prophecy - forget what it's called - except it lets the user destroy a known card in an opponent's hand (costs less magic than the card that destroys all Spell Cards, Rust).

[s6]

OK, I'm new here, so I'm using the 'quote' feature bc I don't see a 'reply' button. Agree w/Pistachiosrule (do you play a green deck?) that Berkerker stinks unless you use him only as a support creature. After playing Zagnol, I wanted a Berserker bad but when I later played him from my deck, I was very disappointed - he's terrible, both offensively and defensively.

Because a non-elemental is necessary in everyone's deck (gets around Amoebas, Wonder Walls, and Migoal), I like my Leo Knight because he is opponent's land strength x10 plus user land HP x10. Opponents don't like to attack him, either; can build up his land until you need to exchange him to do major territory battles towards the middle of the game. A much better non-elemental creature in the hand than Berserker ever dreamed of becoming

pistachiosrule said:

Man, this topic has really got me thinking about cards I just really don't like. Here's another one: Berserker

In battle, Berserker receives 30% of the damage he dishes out -- I'm not sure if this number is rounded up or down. Either way, consider this:

Berserker: 40 ST, 50 HP, 50 G
No land limit -- No item limit

Ok, so an unassisted Berserker will deal 40 damage to the enemy, but will then -- regardless of whether he defeats the enemy or not -- will do 12 points of damage to himself. So think of Berserker as having THESE base stats instead:

Berserker: 40 ST, 38 HP, 50 G

Now look at this:

Fighter: 40 ST, 40 HP, 40 G

In short, you've got a creature that costs 10G less to summon and has 2 more HP.

Berserker gets even worse if you give him offensive items or if he has support from adjacent creatures. Let's say that you just landed on your opponent's level 4 Old Willow on a fire space. He or she has cast Vitality on it so we're looking at a creature with 100 HP. But you're not too worried -- after all you've got a beefy Berserker and a Claymore in your hand and your charismatic Sulfurous Balloon on the adjacent space is willing to lend a hand. You've been paying attention and you know that your opponent doesn't have any items that can save his or her Old Willow. Battle begins -- and as predicted Berserker does his 40+50+10 attack and defeats Old Willow. Berserker then does 30 DAMAGE to himself -- leaving him with only 10 HP to guard the territory. Not only is he now a single Magic Bolt away from your discard pile -- but if any character engages him in battle (even one with zero strength) he's doomed to die by his own confusion from the counterattack. Of course, you could protect him with a Gaseous Form or some armor -- but this just proves a point. In order for Berserker to survive more than a few of his own big attacks, he needs extra protection -- protection that should be used on more worthwhile creatures.

So what have we learned here?

DON'T USE: Berserker
USE INSTEAD: Fighter

[Solis]

ExMortis said:

We tried Phantasm + Fanatic, it doesn't work unfortunately.
It's a neat combo idea and it wouldn't make fanatic broken by any means, but whatever.

Why won't Phantasm work? Is it a bug in the game? If a target creature is supposed to NOT be affected by territory abilities, why would the Fanatic still be subject to it's territory ability?

Perhaps phantasm's text should read "Target creature will be unable to receive or regain damage by Spells or territory abilities (except its own)."

Bummer.

[Daimaoh34]

Actually, "phantasm" is a status that prevents territory and spell damage.

However, I believe that Fanatic's effect is considered to be a cost rather than damage (even though the text makes it seem like damage) so an effect that prevents damage won't prevent it.

Too much CCG errata experience...lol

[TheSynapZe]

Speaking of creatures you should never use, how about Wraith?

Wraith
ST: 10. HP: 30. 40G+C
Death (50%). Destroyed at the end of battle. No armor.

So after it attacks it has a 50% chance of instantly killing anything, but it will definitely die itself in battle. I can't see the use for any creature that can't survive any one battle. It won't claim the territory it attacks and it certainly won't do a great job defending either (It's pretty funny when Morroc plays his Demonic book and levels neutral land guarded by a Wraith up to Level 5, or even better, puts Simulacrum on it as well, hehe). Since it can't equip armor, there's even less a chance that it would survive an attack long enough to counter with that 50% chance of death, for as much good as that would do. Plus you have to discard a card to play it! Am I missing something here?

The Wraith is easily outclassed in the "Monsters that can cause instant death" category. Sure the Cleric, Samurai, Vodyanoi, and Yeti only cause Death in certain situations, the Basilisk (50%) and Igneous Fatui (80%) can bring death anytime without self-destructing. Each have their own faults of course (Both require two green/yellow territories; Basilisk decreases the level of the land; IF is frail, has red/blue land restrictions, has Last Attack and requires a discard), but none of these are as bad as automatically losing your creature.

If the Wraith could use armor and only had maye a 20% chance of self-destructing, then it might be a more balanced card and could perhaps compete with it's instant-death ilk, but for now we should all just avoid it.

DON'T USE: Wraith
DO USE: Basilisk, or pretty much anything else, really.

[Solis]

Another far too risky for my tastes set of cards are

Magic Fountain (N) (SP)
Single Status G:20
Cepters that first stop in target territory will gain 400G of magical powers.

and

Mine (N) (SP)
Single Status G:10
The Cepter that lands on the selected land first loses 50% of their magical powers.

It's just too chancy. On the oppsite side of the coin, it's not like they're EXPENSVIE to cast... but why give your opponent a chance at a leg up should YOU land on Mine or the opponent land on Magic Fountain?

Just not worth it (in my opinion).

[WhoseYerLilith]

Definitely agree with Magic Fountain, but Mine can be fantastic with Kelpie, Old Willow or using the spell Quicksand. Enemy loses half of their G total, then has to pay a toll. Rock it.

Wraith can actually be used somewhat usefully, though never as a land holder unless he has "Peace" on- and even that, he's hardly impressive- and I agree SynapZe, I LOVE playing Morroc when he levels up his Wraiths. This creature however can kinda be used as kamikaze assassins though, and they can triple in value if the Basalt Idol is out. If your enemy has a few level 5 territorries or a really tough creature to kill (Wall of Ice), placing the Wraith next to it and using the move ability can be somewhat useful, I'll sometimes play with 2 in my deck and there were times were they saved my ass and other times where I ended up throwing em away.

[Daimaoh34]

Yeah, Wraith is like using Dynamite in battle. It's used to give you a chance at killing a big creature, but never to keep lands.

Never thought of using Mine and the Quicksand effect monsters together though...but in a versus battle, that's just asking to be gang-banged. It's not fun when everyone starts using spells and other fun things against you and only you... lol

[Solis]

WhoseYerLilith said:

Definitely agree with Magic Fountain, but Mine can be fantastic with Kelpie, Old Willow or using the spell Quicksand. Enemy loses half of their G total, then has to pay a toll. Rock it.

AH! I suppose that would make a rockin' trap. Can you believe that after dozens of battles, I don't have a Kelpie or Old Willow yet?

I got the shaft!

[s6]

I don't use Mine for the same reason (too risky for my own Cepter) but I do use Magic Fountain sometimes. I place it on my own territories that cost an opponent more than 400g if they lose. If your territory is leveled up, chances are no one will land there but your Cepter. And if the creature's sitting on leveled up land, generally it can't lose. (Opponent has to pay you, even if it's a draw.) I've made a lot of extra manna that way b4 in matches.

[TheSynapZe]

Here's a showdown between two ladies from the Wind Creatures category:

Nike: ST 30, HP 30, G 60+W, Item Limit: Armor, First Attack, Bonus Attack: Paralysis

Succubus: ST 40, HP 40, G 50+C, Land Limit: Earth, Bonus Attack: Weakness

Both excel at "softening up" enemies and at this Nike renders Succubus pretty much obsolete. Although Nike is more frail and can't utilize defensive items, her First Attack and Paralysis abilities almost guarantee that she won't be hit at all. It is a joy to move a Nike to attack a nearby Old Willow and paralyze it, opening the door for any other ally to come charging in with a weapon and easily finish the job, as the Willow can neither attack nor equip any items. Paralysis also seems to stop special abilities, like how a Pyro Drake gains 20 ST and HP before every fight.

Succubus, however, doesn't have first attack, has an annoying land restriction and requires a discard. She Weakens an enemy after an attack, which does permanaently reduce its ST to zero (it can't be erased with another curse like Paralysis, but the enemy can still use items (even weapons) so the loss of strength is not nearly as important. Just look at the spell cards and you'll see that Binding Mist is much costlier than Weakness.

The extra 10 G cost and the Wind Territory requirement shouldn't hurt Nike at all as she is most useful in the later stages of the game. I'd choose Nike over Succubus any time, even though Succubus is considerably hotter.

DON'T USE: Succubus
DO USE: Nike

[WhoseYerLilith]

PistachiosRule and TheSynapZe- you both are some of my favorite peeps on this board. I love reading your comparison posts, and I kept meaning to post because I've disagreed with some of your points, but I havent had time until now. I think my only real issue is the whole "Dont use this card, instead use THIS card because its superior" train of thought and while you make some phenomenal points, I disagree with that way of thinking because EVERY single card has value if used in the right circumstances.

Arguement 1- Wall of Ice vs. Alga Sphere. Granted Wall of Ice certainly seems the better card of the two, but as Culd pointed out, the Alga Sphere is never really a waste of a card. It's easy to get out, with good stats- it can hold territorry and it can cast "Growth Body" on itself to apparently limitless numbers. One of my favorite battles of all time included dropping a Wall of Ice and an Alga Sphere on two successive blue lands, the Wall of Ice was actually killed by the end, the Alga Sphere remained till the end because of its astronimcal defense points since the Wall of Ice's defense boost only happens in battle, and mustering 40HP points worth of spell damage is not a difficult one, especially for the computer (unless you're only fighting Zagol) where as the Alga Sphere retains its MHP. Carrying a few Revelations will also make the painful (Level up or Increase MHP) choice an easier one. My bottom line is that both cards can be used in great value and I don't see the clear advantage of Wall of Ice other than in the immediate beginning of the game.

2- Dwarf v Dragon Zombie- I was honestly surprised by this one, always figuring the Dragon Zombie to be the clear choice, but you gave some great arguements. I thought about them and tested out some theories and I have to disagree-Primarily, the Dwarf doesn't have above average strength- he has 30. And Dragon Zombie's 40 ST should not be balked at simply because he can't defeat Cait Sith. I decided to run an experiment using a deck with 4 Dwarves, then the exact same deck with 4 Dragon Zombies replacing the 4 Dwarves. I went through the entire story mode using only that deck and found some interesting results. While conciously not playing any kind of favorites, the Dwarf won 11 out of 62 battles as the offender, the Zombie Dragon won 32 out of 56. As a Defender, the Dwarf successfully held the territory (I included when the enemy simply pays the toll as the same thing as holding the territory) 58 out of 91 times. The Zombie Dragon held on 89 out of 102 times. Now obviously the epxeriment isn't perfect, but it definitely casts a burden of doubt. A freshly placed Dragon Zombie on a forest has 70HP in battle for the mere price of 100G. Consider the rest of the Green creatures, most of them that can hold their own in both defense and offense have a very annoying land requirement- (Vampire, Gargoyle, T'aio T'ieh, Trench Worm, Death Gaze, Gigantherium) making the Zombie Dragon invaluable on a first draw and I also believe the extra 30 Gold is well worth the +10 HP and +10 Defense the Dragon Zombie receives both in and out of battles. Still your points about the Dwarf are very well put and he's also a great solid creature to get on a first draw.

3- Succubus v. Nike- I agreed with most of this, except for the fact that I can't count the times when I didn't have a yellow land occupied and ended up throwing Nike away and being able to fight and win with a Succubus as she can be summoned any time. (As long as you have a card to discard and you're not on a green land.) I think Nike makes an excellent defender but she quickly become dead meat against the Blue Queen (and the hottest card) Lilith and the whole plethora of first strike creatures due to the armor restriction- In offense Id always rather have a Succubus-going with first draws- A Nike can be a burden, the Succubus is a welcome sight. As far as their extra abilities are concerned, no contest- Nike's paralysis ability is "phenomenal", Succubus's weakness is "kinda fun-maybe" and only really shines with combinations (Lunatic Hare, Luna Stone) or against a very aggresive Cepter who likes to use the move command. (Ahem Balberit and Zeneth, you know who you are.)

Additionally, the other problem with your arguements is that you are looking at the cards solely for their value as attackers/defenders, what about people who play "Support" Decks? Clearly the cards with higher stats will be given preferred treatment.